Recovering...

[curiouswombat]

Thank you to everyone for the good wishes, virtual hugs, and excellent advice following my shunt in the car on Friday. They have obviously helped as I am not as stiff and sore as predicted at all.

So firstly I am going to do the post I had intended for Friday - just a few pictures to show that we are having a nice autumn so far and so there is still a lot of colour in the garden.


















And just to show that I am doing my bit for the future of butterflies....




Even if they are going to only be Cabbage Whites when they grow up - but I have let them live happily on a tub of nasturtiums.



And I have been thinking of hobbits - I always think of hobbits when I am pickling spiced pears for Christmas and winter eating - I have begun to think of them as 'Sam's Spiced Pears'. And I was thinking that to me hobbits live in a version of Tolkien's England - so if they drink cider it is, of course, alcoholic - as apple juice would be called just that, not cider, and if they talk of a field of corn, they mean wheat, not maize, and so on.

And it occurred to me that the mental image of some of my friends must be very different when they think of these things. It was actually brought home to me when Cairistiona had one of the Dunedan women 'shucking' corn - and I puzzled over what she could be doing to it - until I realised it was what you did to what we call sweetcorn. So now I sometimes try to see The Shire, or The Angle, as it must appear to my American friends - and it makes me smile.

I wonder what else we see totally differently in our mind's eye?

Comments

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

They have obviously helped as I am not as stiff and sore as predicted at all.

Good! :-)

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

[zanthinegirl.livejournal.com]

Your garden looks gorgeous! I still have some things blooming, but it's very much the end of the season.

I'm so glad to hear you're feeling better, and not as stiff as expected. still scary!

I did indeed picture the "Corn" as american corn/ maize. I was an adult before I realized the same word means such different things! And the cider; again I think I was an adult before I ever heard of hard cider. I think it's a lot more popular now than it was back in the 80s though. I happen to have a bottle of locally brewed hard cider in my fridge right now!

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

The flowers are coming to an end now - but there is still a surprising amount of colour.

The first time I saw the phrase 'hard cider' I was totally confused by it - then decided it must mean 'dry' cider - as it comes in sweet and dry versions like wine. It just never occurred to me that you used cider to mean apple juice - it is, to us, the equivalent of calling grape juice 'wine'. I think it was three or four years before I realised!

[spiced-wine.livejournal.com]

I'm so glad that you're not stiff and sore after that.

Your nasturtium leaves are like mine :) I leave the caterpillars alone too. And some of my flowers are still going strong, like yours.
Because our soil is full of huge flint nodules, it's almost impossible to dig, so I just use pots, but they've been pretty. I decided, after seeing a picture on Pinterest, to get some Morning Glories. The flowers last just one day, but they're lovely, and the leaves are so pretty. They've gone mad, clambering everywhere, but I don't mind as I was trying to create a bit of privacy from the neighbours.


So now I sometimes try to see The Shire, or The Angle, as it must appear to me American friends - and it makes me smile.

Tolkien says it was the 'old world' east of the Sea, so I think of the Shire as rural England, with the same crops. It wouldn't occur to me to think of it otherwise. I am assuming potatoes somehow got to the Shire via the Númenoreans!

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

I'm really so much less sore than predicted - the naproxen seems to have done the trick.

There is a lot to be said for gardening in pot, isn't there? Morning Glories are beautiful - I might get some for next year.

I'm totally with you on the Shire being rural England. But it hadn't occurred to me that the Númenoreans would actually account nicely for the potatoes - and pipe-weed if it is tobacco!

I reckon they might have some way of importing the citrus fruit from somewhere down near Dol Amroth - or else Sam spices his pears with a slightly different mix to me!

Actually, a favourite scene of mine in fanfic is in Isabeau's 'Captain, my Captain' where Elrohir discovers oranges - and then, in a sequel, marmalade!

[kazzy-cee.livejournal.com]

Glad you're feeling better! There is so much colour in all your pots - they look great.

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

Thank you - I seem to be as tough as old boots - I am much less sore than predicted. The pot are still quite colourful - and my cream rose has buds on it.

[clodia-metelli.livejournal.com]

Wait, what? Non-alcoholic cider exists? Huh, then I learned something today. Your flowers are such a splash of colour; and I'm glad you're not a mass of bruises!

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

Americans, weirdly to the rest of us, call cloudy apple juice 'cider'... ever since I realised, I sort of visualise Somerset being knee deep in drunken American tourists who have been quaffing scrumpy.

I am wonderfully less sore than predicted!

[ellynn-ithilwen.livejournal.com]

Yay, glad to hear you're ok! :D

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I really am so much better than predicted.

[hobbituk.livejournal.com]

And when you say you are thinking of hobbits, I go huh?? *grins*

There are so many differences in a supposedly common language. I am still thrown by the fact that Americans call scones biscuits... When I first saw a post by someone saying they had biscuits that they cut and buttered, I was totally confused. I mean, how can you cut and butter one of our biscuits?

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

Biscuits threw me totally too - I saw someone writing about having something savoury with 'biscuits and white gravy', and felt quite sick!

Talk about two peoples separated by a common language...

[keiliss.livejournal.com]

Aw, your flowers are gorgeous. My garden is a post winter, not quite spring mess still - the weather has been so cold the plants have no idea what's going on.

Thank you, I finally understand about hard cider *g*. I had assumed it was a cider with a higher than usual alcohol count or was home brewed or some such. Non-alcoholic cider never crossed my mind.

We produce both wheat and maize here, but I grew up calling maize mielies and associate 'corn' with wheat. I did need help picturing an English forest for a story a few years back, and still have a page of notes about trees and wild flowers from a friend.

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

The garden always looks its worst, I think, at that moment of pause between winter and spring.

I assumed hard cider was cider with a higher than usual alcohol count too - but eventually someone explained when I got very confused about them giving small children cider - and they couldn't understand why I thought it odd!

'Forest' covers such a broad spectrum too, doesn't it? I have to remind myself that it doesn't always mean closely packed trees, but can have really big open spaces!

[gillo]

I'm glad the bruising is not too painful. Your pots have some lovely colours still - we still have quite a lot in the hanging baskets, which is very cheering. I can't believe it's October next week!

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

The flowers are doing well - although some pots are now down to just green - the dahlias are about done.

I seem to be as tough as old boots - I am much less sore than predicted.

[kathyh]

Glad to hear you're not too stiff and sore.

I never knew there was such a thing as non-alcoholic cider! That seems like a contradiction in terms really as I've always considered cider one of the most insidiously lethal alcoholic drinks you can have (I speak from bitter experience *g*).

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

I realised, through LJ, that in America they use the word 'cider' to mean cloudy apple juice. So probably see some of the hobbits' quaffing as being like a children's party rather than them drinking strong alcohol.

[estelcontar1.livejournal.com]

I'm really glad you're feeling much less stiff and sore than you expected.

What exquisite flowers you have in your garden.

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

Thank you - they are the last of the geraniums, petunias and so on - but it is nice to have the last few weeks of colour.

[the-winterwitch.livejournal.com]

I'm so glad to hear you're feeling not too bad! :o) *hugs*
Lovely colour shots, and yay to feeding the future butterflies.

Oh yes, the pickled pears... I hope I still can get suitable pears when I'm up again to pickling, but right now this means too much standing for me. *sigh* I fully agree on your "Hobbit" country. It honestly didn't occur to me to imagine anything else, because I never doubted Tolkien would have imagined his own country when thinking of the Shire. But your question is very valid and very interesting!
Remember our talking about Ithilien when I wrote some reviews? Back then, I had imagined Ithilien to be more like Italy, Tuscany in particular; but after my recent holiday in the Loire region, particularly the Anjou, I can't see Ithilien and Gondor being anywhere else, or rather can't imagine anything better-fitting to "illustrate" these landscape, climate and culture. Even the river Loire in its untamed, soft wildness has much of the Anduin. I don't know if Tolkien ever has been there (I don't think so), but it sounds so very plausible.

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

Back then, I had imagined Ithilien to be more like Italy, Tuscany in particular; but after my recent holiday in the Loire region, particularly the Anjou, I can't see Ithilien and Gondor being anywhere else, or rather can't imagine anything better-fitting to "illustrate" these landscape, climate and culture.

Now that is an interesting thought - I, too, tend to see Gondor as rather Italian, and Ithilien as rather like Tuscany - but your re-envisioning is really interesting, too. I must think about it more.

And actually - I've always had a wish to re-invent Dol Amroth as Venice...

[cairistiona7.livejournal.com]

Beautiful flowers. My own wilted a little in the summer heat but are bouncing back now. I need to go out with a camera and capture them to enjoy during winter's dreary grey days.

Erm, yes, I well remember the corn vs maize controversy my story inadvertently unleashed. I've made a vow to never again mention either crop in a story!

My own terms for drinks made from apples, because even in America, the terms change from region to region (it's a big country):

Apple juice - filtered, clear, no "pulp" from the apple at all, non-alcoholic. Often the juice of choice for kids.

Soft cider - non-alcoholic, made by pulping the apples and is unfiltered, so it's cloudy and, if you get the unpasteurized straight from an orchard, it's like drinking a fresh apple. The pasteurized stuff in the grocery stores is nasty by comparison, at least to me. If you say, "I want a jug of cider" at an orchard here, this is what you will receive. If, however, you want to get sloshed, you'd ask for:

Hard cider - apple cider that's allowed to ferment.

Then there's frozen cider, which is soft cider that's frozen into a wonderful slush. Very good on warm autumn days. We always get a cup when we pick up our year's supply of soft cider at the orchard in October. And cider donuts are out of this world good.

And since scones came up... I'm an American, but I call scones, scones, and most people in my region consider them quite different than biscuits (which are a type of bread, not a cookie as they are in Britain). What we call biscuits are softer and much fluffier than scones, and while they are sometimes flavored with cheese or garlic, they'd never include anything sweet like raisins or raspberries (I have a box of ready-to-bake raspberry/white chocolate scones in my freezer that I'm eager to try). In looking over recipes for scones vs biscuits, the biggest difference (besides savor vs sometimes sweet) seems to be that scones contain egg, whereas biscuits do not.

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

Oh, sorry - I didn't realise it had sparked a controversy. I was just confused by it - then realised that it wouldn't have occurred to you that corn in Middle Earth wouldn't be maize, because that is what you think of when you see the word.

Whereas to Brits, it could only ever mean wheat or barley etc. as it is Tolkien's world and, if he knew anything at all about the existence of maize, he would never have thought of anyone calling it corn. But it just amused me, that we saw his world so differently because the same word means different things to us.

The use of cider to mean a soft drink is a particularly American thing - and again funny to us - as the word must have gone out from Europe with the original meaning as it has certainly only applied to alcoholic beverages for the past 900+ years.

I would quite fancy a cider slush-puppy - especially if it was cider not apple juice.

And as for the biscuit/scone/cookie/ whatever debate - back in February 2006 I posted about it (http://curiouswombat.livejournal.com/58242.html) - and got over 120 comments!

I don't usually put egg in scones - and wouldn't put dried fruit in a lot of the time either - but they are still scones not biscuits. Of course the European definition of 'biscuit' is in part based on what happens when the product goes stale - if it dries out and gets harder it is a cake (or scone, as a subdivision of cake), and a biscuit if it gets soft!

I still feel ill at the idea of biscuit and gravy, though...

[pondhopper.livejournal.com]

You have a LOT of summer colour left and that first pelar is lovely!
It's good to hear you aren't as sore as you might be!

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

that first pelar is lovely

Sadly I think that might be it's last blossom until next year.

And I am really remarkably chipper!

[kortirion.livejournal.com]

I'm envious of your flowers, apart from the last few Fuchsias (that spelling doesn't look right, but spellcheck says it is...) the final remnants of Evening Primrose, and a wee bit of lavender, my garden is about done. And it was so cold earlier on, these lilies never did flower this year.

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

I have flowers on the fuchsias out the front still - and the odd flower here and there on the ones out the back - they are often quite late in settling for the winter.

My lilies didn't do anything, either.

[diebirchen.livejournal.com]

Get well soon!

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

Thank you - I'm feeling more or less myself today - just a hint of stiffness in my neck.

[slaymesoftly.livejournal.com]

Clearly I missed a post or two! I'm glad to hear you are not too banged up by whatever happened to you in a car! I'm assuming an accident of some sort?

I've been very MIA lately due to RL busy-ness and the ongoing pain-in-the-butt logging out issues that apparently will persist until we have another way to get internet access. Falling way behind in photo-scavenger- both posting and comments. Ah well.

Had no idea wheat is called corn in the UK. Makes for a very mental image for sure! Here, I think there's a difference between apple juice and non-hard cider, but I'm not sure what its. Probably has something to do with the process of getting the juice from the apples.... I love learning these differences. :)

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

I was hit quite hard from behind whilst stopped waiting to turn right across the traffic and ended up in A&E will mild whiplash. But I am recovering really well.

Corn is, really, a generic term for all grain crops including barley and oats. But usually it means wheat.

It would never mean maize to us, as the word was in use a long time before the Europeans came across what is an American crop. But, of course, when you see 'corn' you think of maize - hence the very different mental images - I'm fascinated now by the mental images you must get from Bible passages like Ruth and Boaz or hymns like 'Fair waved the golden corn'!

[nutmeg3.livejournal.com]

Those first pink flowers are absolutely stunning. I can practically smell them, they're so perfect.

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

I think those are probably the last blooms on that geranium until next spring. Hopefully it will over-winter as it is such a lovely colour.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, beautiful flowers, yay for butterflies, even if they are only Cabbage Whites! I see the odd Red Admiral around here every now and then, no idea where they are coming from.

Good to hear you are doing well Ibuprophen and I do not mix well at all, I usually have to take it with food or milk, I am very much an Acetaminophen girl!

Huggs,
Lynda

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

Ibuprofen, or any others of the NSAIDs should always be prescribed as 'to be taken with, or just after, food' for everyone. But I do have a habit of sometimes taking brufen without the food, I must admit.

Paracetamol is fine for mild pain - but doesn't have the anti-infammatory effect so isn't so good for anything involving muscles or joint pain - but if you can't take the NSAIDs it is certainly better than nothing!

[lindahoyland.livejournal.com]

Glad you're feeling better.I passed a field of maize on friday and started thinking about the whole corn/wheat USA/UK Shire thing!
Great photos!

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

I certainly feel better than predicted - which is good.

The corn thing didn't occurred to me for years - and, of course, I always imagined a grain crop if I read an American book that talked of fields of corn as well!

I can remember being very confused by an American book I read as a child where they made a dessert from Graham Crackers - I visualised something like Jacobs and it sounded horrible. It was only in the past few years that I realise they are more like digestive biscuits...

[willowgreen.livejournal.com]

Some sweet cider isn't even cloudy -- for example, California favorite Martinelli's is completely clear:

http://www.martinellis.com/products/juices/jc050.shtml

"Cider" usually refers to less-processed apple juice that's not made from concentrate. Most apple juice you buy in the store is apple juice concentrate reconstituted with water. There's a huge difference in flavor between that and the good stuff. What I think of as cider is very fresh and doesn't keep long, even in the refrigerator. When I was growing up, it was sold unpasteurized and would get "hot" -- slightly alcoholic -- after a few days. That was really good, until it turned to vinegar! Now even fresh apple cider is usually pasteurized before sale, and it doesn't always have that snap that I remember from childhood. But when it's good, it's really good.

Here's more than you ever wanted to know about how they make cider at Cornell University, source of the still unparalleled cider of my childhood. If you skip to about 8:00 - 9:00, you can see that the finished cider is darker and less translucent than most store-bought apple juice, but it's not exactly cloudy, either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaBa8extpzo

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the links. We Europeans just think it's funny that you use the word cider for so much stuff that isn't cider... if you see what I mean.

As the word must have gone from Britain, France, and all the other countries with similar names for alcohol made from apples, attached to exactly that - alcohol. So how on earth did it come to mean apple juice that is not fermented to form alcohol?

One for the etymologists, I think :)

[sulien.livejournal.com]

It's really great to hear that you're doing well!

You have a very beautiful garden and the photos of all the flowers are truly lovely.

It's entirely too cool that canning pears makes you think of Hobbits and I think Sam really would love spiced pears. I have to wonder what spices Hobbits would use though, since cinnamon, nutmeg, allspice and other such things are all from tropical plants. I suppose it's okay though, since Tolkien specifically mentioned potatoes and those were only brought to Europe after Columbus' voyages. And, yes, I've been told more times than I can remember that I think too much about really trivial stuff. :-p

The word corn being used to describe cereal grains is something I ran across while reading a historical novel in high school. I kept wondering about the odd descriptions, so I looked up 'corn' and found that the word originally meant cereal grains. The same goes for cider, though the first opportunity I got to try hard cider was in England during a vacation with some friends in 1996. I've been hooked on hard cider ever since and, thankfully, cider is becoming popular here in the USA and can be found in most places that sell beer, which makes me very happy! Now, if only hand drawn bitters would become popular and available in local bars/pubs/taverns... *sigh* Yeah, I got really spoiled by my two weeks in England!

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

Ah - but cinnamon, nutmeg, allspice and other such things are all mentioned in medieval cookery books - of which there are a surprising number. Such trade into Northern Europe has existed for thousands of years - so it seems reasonable that similar trade existed in Middle Earth - and as the hobbits are exporting pipe-weed out of the Shire, they are very likely to be importing such spices - especially as they are such connoisseurs of good food!

found that the word originally meant cereal grains.

And, of course, not just 'originally' - but currently everywhere but North America - and you can imagine how we read books written by American authors and visualised fields of waving grain crops when the writer meant fields of maize - I was always so surprised at how people seemed able to hide in corn fields!

Children drinking cider seemed very decadent to me, too, of course...

[(Anonymous)]

Hi, back again.
All this talk of cider both hard and soft has me wondering about the cider I had as a little girl in England a couple of centuries ago, it came in a big brown bottle and had a bit of a fizz to it, but I don't think it was a hard cider more of a sparkling apple juice.

I think the elves gave potatoes and tomatoes and corn(maize) to the Numnorians and they in turn gave them to the Hobbits, maybe on their way through the Shire escaping from Angmar!

And just where do Hobbits get an express train from? (The Dragon firework at Bilbo's/Frodo's party) Inquiring minds want to know!

Huggs,Lynda

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

but I don't think it was a hard cider more of a sparkling apple juice.

If it was cider it would have been alcoholic, there is no such thing in Britain as non-alcoholic cider. But quite possibly it was something like Woodpecker - which I remember being given small amounts of as a child - it came in a big brown bottle, had a picture of a woodpecker on the label, and was sweet and with only about 1.5% alcohol.

Tolkien certainly saw his hobbits having potatoes - although quite possibly just because he didn't worry too much about such things when he first invented them for the children's book. So I reckon it is useful to think of the Numenorians bringing some of those things like the potatoes, the pipe-weed and even tomatoes to the continent as they escaped - but if they had brought maize into what Tolkien tells us was more or less central England, no-one would have dreamt of calling it 'corn'.

But, of course, American readers 'see' what the word means to them - whereas an image of the Shire dotted around with fields of maize/sweetcorn gives us the giggles!

I blame the Numenorians for the train as well - Ar-Pharazôn has a lot to answer for... :)

[shirebound]

I'm so glad to hear that you're feeling much better! What a relief.

Gorgeous pics. What a lovely autumn you're having.

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

Thank you - I have recovered very well, thank goodness.

Autumn is mild and gentle so far - which is lovely, following our good summer.

[bojojoti.livejournal.com]

I'm so glad you weren't seriously hurt.

I grew up reading Victorian literature--much of which was written by British authors. It was disappointing to discover years later that those things I thought were so exotic, marvelous, and British were actually ordinary, commonplace things here!

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

I'm really more or less back to normal.

The way in which the two countries have come to mean different things by the same word - and the same thing with different words, has certainly made our childhood/teenage reading more interesting.

I remember being quite fascinated by the idea of Clover, in one of Susan Coolidge's books,making a dessert using Graham Crackers in a chaffing dish. I was able to figure 'chaffing dish' from a copy of Mrs Beeton - but always imagined Graham Crackers to be like Jacobs Cream Crackers and assumed the dish to be very boring, dry, and plain. Until, about eight or nine years ago when I learnt, through the wonders of LJ, that she was using digestive biscuits - and suddenly it sounded a lot more appetizing!